Q&A: The origin of ‘a kettle of fish’

Each week here at the Australian Writers’ Centre, we dissect and discuss, contort and retort, ask and gasp at the English language and all its rules, regulations and ridiculousness. It’s a celebration of language, masquerading as a passive-aggressive whinge about words and weirdness. This week, there's something fishy…

Q: Hi AWC, I heard something described as “a different kettle of fish” the other day. Why a kettle of fish?

A: Good question! First, let’s unlock the actual meaning of this fishy idiom – as there are a few variations.

Q: Different kettles?

A: Well, yeah. Kind of.

Q: Seriously? Couldn’t they have chosen something different to put the fish in for each one?

A: That would have made it easier. As it is, it’s a fine “kettle of fish” – what Macquarie Dictionary defines as “a mess, muddle, or awkward state of affairs”. Note the ironic use of “fine” or “pretty” beforehand almost always for this messy type of meaning. 

Q: So it’s like a “right royal mess”?

A: Yes. Except with fish. And kettles.

Q: Who puts fish in kettles anyway? I only use mine for cups of tea.

A: The type of “kettle” being referred to is similar to that which might cook “kettle fry chips”. It comes from the Old English “cetil” from Latin “catillus”, meaning a “'deep container for cooking or serving food”. It likely got the “k” spelling in the 1300s via Old Norse “ketill”.

Q: The Vikings! I suppose they were good at fishing.

A: Indeed. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the term “kettle of fish” appears first in 1742 as “a bad state of affairs”. And it wasn’t until the late 1700s, that the idea of a smaller “tea-kettle” came along – the definition we usually think of today.

Q: Why a “kettle of fish”? Surely cooking fish wouldn’t result in such chaos?

A: Good question. Some theories suggest it is Scottish in origin – relating to cooking fish outdoors at a boating party. Another theory has “kettle” as a variant of a “kiddle” from the Old French “quidel” – for a netting fence for catching fish along coasts and rivermouths. Again, still no strong link to how this becomes a mess. Some suggest the presence of large fish too big to fit in a cooking kettle (or tangled in the fishing net) might have given rise to the saying.

Q: So you mentioned a few variations?

A: That’s right. Because when something becomes “a different kettle of fish”, the kettle in question is no longer a muddle, mess or bad state of affairs. 

Q: Wait, what?

A: Nope. It simply denotes “something else”. An example would be talking about local birdlife, and then jumping across to the topic of road safety. Someone might say “well that’s a whole different kettle of fish” – referring to it being a different matter entirely.

Q: So the kettle and the fish are not really indicative of anything here?

A: Yeah, it’s a weird one. A text from 1785 by Thomas Newte in his Tour in England and Scotland is often quoted as this origin. It said “What they want is a very different kettle of fish” – used figuratively in describing local townspeople’s wishes and not their literal dinner order.

Q: And is “a whole new kettle of fish” also a thing?

A: It is – essentially the same as “a different kettle of fish” and commonly used throughout both Britain and North America (where it’s often interchangeable with “a whole new/different ball game”). By the way, it’s probably the only time Americans use the word kettle besides kettlebells in gyms.

Q: Really? Spill the tea!

A: No, that’s it. They don’t spill tea. No kettles in most American kitchens. Or hotel rooms.

Q: So to recap, if a “kettle of fish” is prefaced with pretty or fine, it’s likely to be a mess. But if it’s different or new, it’s just another matter entirely.

A: Exactly. Same kettle – two rather different takes, depending on what you slap in front of it. Isn’t English fun!

Q: I might have to put the kettle on and think about that one…

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